HT Interview: “We will not get a single seat less than our 2019 tally,” says Devendra Fadnavis

The deputy CM talks about what has changed for the party in the last four months, and whether Adani was present in the government formation talks with the NCP

BJP leader and deputy chief minister Devendra Fadnavis is the face of the party’s campaign in Maharashtra and has a lot riding on this election personally, especially after the rout in the Lok Sabha. He took time off from his hectic campaign to talk to Surendra P Gangan about divisive slogans, what has changed for the party in the last four months, about NCP leader Anil Deshmukh’s allegations against him and whether industrialist Gautam Adani was present in the government formation talks with the NCP in 2019. Edited excerpts from the interview:

Maharashtra deputy chief minister Devendra Fadnavis. (MAHENDRA KOLHE/HT)

Q: Ajit Pawar, Pankaja Munde and Ashok Chavan have all said they do not approve of the slogan ‘Batenge toh katenge’ that is being widely used by the BJP in this campaign. Your thoughts?

A: Ajit Pawar and others did not understand the concept of the slogan. If you look at the history of this country--be it the caste system, language system, or regionalism— (it enabled) outsiders to rule over us. The Congress’s design is the same. Prime Minister has said that 350 OBC castes are important because they are united and if they get divided through a caste-based survey, their importance will reduce. Batenge toh katenge really means we should all be united…We are also against vote jihad as we saw in the Lok Sabha polls in Amravati, Mumbai North Central, North East where the Muslims got together to defeat the Mahayuti candidates. Is putting a banner in the name of Allah secularism?

Q. So ‘Batenge toh katenge is a response to what you call Vote Jihad?

A: Yes, it was. In addition to that, our slogan ‘Ek hai toh safe hai’ is a message to the society to be safe. We are not against Muslims. When we design welfare schemes they are meant for Muslim sisters too.

Q: On the one hand you say the Narendra Modi government has brought 2.5 crore people out of poverty, if that’s the case why do you need to launch schemes like ‘Ladki Bahin’?

A: Brining people out of poverty is not making them rich. They still have certain aspirations as they enter the lower middle-class strata. The government’s welfare schemes are to make their life comfortable and to fulfil their basic needs.

Q. But haven’t these populist schemes left state economy bleeding?

A: We are not reeling under a mountain of debt. The size of the state economy is more important than the debt. We have the debt of around ₹6.5 lakh crore and our economy is worth ₹40 lakh crore. Compare this to Utter Pradesh, their economy is about ₹25 lakh crore, whereas their debt burden is the same as ours. When we announced Ladki Bahin, we made the requisite budgetary allocation.

Q. In addition to contesting its own seats, the BJP has also given 16 candidates to Shinde-led Sena and Ajit Pawar-led NCP? Will these candidates come back to the BJP fold after the polls?

A: Why just those candidates, at least 17 candidates in the first list announced by Uddhav Thackeray’s party were originally from our party. That does not mean they will come back to us after the election. But yes, we had an understanding with Eknath Shinde and Ajit Pawar about giving some of our leaders to contest in their share of constituencies. This happened because the BJP has been preparing to contest all 288 seats but obviously in an alliance all of our leaders cannot possibly be accommodated.

Q. Why did the Mahayuti not support Raj Thackeray’s son Amit at Mahim?

A: The BJP and even CM Shinde wanted to support Amit Thackeray at Mahim but then Shiv Sena leaders said that not fielding their candidate will help the Shiv Sena-UBT and which is why nothing could be done.

Q. Ajit Pawar’s party leaders are going around saying they will be the kingmaker after the election.

A: We do not think they are part of the Mahayuti.

Q. What’s the target of the number seats set by the ruling alliance, and who will be the CM candidate from your party?

A: The target set by us is a secret, but one thing is clear that we will form the government. The decision over the post of the CM will be taken by leaders of the three parties in the alliance. Shinde saheb and Ajitdada Pawar are the chiefs of their respective parties and our parliamentary board authorises our state president to take a call on the CM’s name which will eventually be decided by the top central leaders. There is no formula as of now.

Q. What has changed since the Lok Sabha rout?

A: The narrative about the Constitution and Vote Jihad (referring to consolidation of Muslim votes against them) played against us. The first one has been killed by Rahul Gandhi himself by his statements against quota (that it should be scrapped) made when he was abroad. (There is no record of Rahul Gandhi having made such a statement). As for ‘Vote Jihad’ it will not work in Assembly elections. Unlike the Lok Sabha constituency, where the consolidation of voters of a particular religion who are concentrated in one area can swing the outcome, in this election that voter concentration will at best change the outcome in only one constituency. (A Lok Sabha constituency typically comprises six Assembly constituencies).

Q. A section of the BJP has never approved of the party joining hands with Ajit Pawar.

A: We could not convince them earlier, but we have done so now.

Q. The Marathas voted against the Mahayuti in Lok Sabha. Are you worried about the impact of the Marathas reservation agitation in this election too?

A: It’s not true that the Marathas voted against us. Had they done so we could not have polled 43.6% votes against MVA’s 43.9%. I can say with certainty that we will gain in all the regions, and our tally will not reduce even by one seat as compared to our 2019 tally (In 2019 the BJP had won 105 seats).

Q. In a recent interview, retired justice Chandiwal who was appointed to look into the allegations of corruption levelled at former home minister Anil Deshmukh by former Mumbai police commissioner spoke about the probe. Since Anil Deshmukh has dragged you into the controversy, what do you have to say about it?

A: Retired Justice Chandiwal has exposed Anil Deshmukh and his party leaders who wanted to set a certain narrative. Chandiwal has said that his report has not given anyone a clean chit and in fact he has said that the people who were responsible to provide proof to the commission did not do so. His interview also makes it clear that (police officer) Sachin Vaze had changed his statement (accusing Deshmukh of using police officers to collect money from dance bar owners) under pressure from then government. Most importantly, he has said that there was a design to frame Devendra Fadnavis. This means I was their target, doesn’t it?

Q. In that case why did your government not make Justice Chandiwal’s report public?

A: We did not do so because it had lost its relevance. The CBI had already submitted the charge sheet. Another thing that needs to be taken into account is that Anil Deshmukh has been granted bail on health ground and it’s a technical bail.

Q. Your fellow deputy chief minister Ajit Pawar has recently said that industrialist Gautam Adani was present in the meeting that was held to form BJP-NCP government in 2019. What did actually happen?

A: It is true that a meeting took place in Delhi in the presence of Amit Shah, Sharad Pawar, Ajit Pawar, Praful Patel and me on November 11, 2019. But let me clarify that neither did it happen in the presence of Gautam Adani nor did it happen at his residence.

Q: So, is Ajit Pawar then referring to some other meeting that happened in the presence of Gautam Adani?

A: There was no other meeting held for this, as per my knowledge.