This is what history feels like: American envoy Eric Garcetti on Modi’s US visit

Prime Minister Narendra Modi arrived in New York for a State visit on Tuesday at the invitation of United States President Joe Biden and First Lady Jill Biden

As Prime Minister Narendra Modi landed in New York, the United States (US) ambassador to India, Eric Garcetti, was making final preparations for the state visit. In the historic State Department building in Washington DC, he spoke to Hindustan Times about the India-US ties on Tuesday. Edited excerpts:

United States ambassador to India Eric Garcetti. (Twitter)

What makes this visit so unique?

I think what makes this visit significant is it is the deepest relationship, arguably, between two of our leaders, but it reflects the deepest relationship ever between our two governments. And that in turn reflects the deepest relationship between two peoples. So for the first time, you have not just two people at the top willing to talk about the future. Two governments align at taking actions to push that future forward, but there’s a depth and a warmth of friendship and connections between 1.75 billion people that has never existed before.

I think this is what history feels like. This is one of those moments where you read the book backwards and you see those key moments in history. When you are living them that day, you don’t always feel it. But I would argue this is one of those moments where the relationship is positively past the point of no return, where we have a real sense that we can define the future, and that we will be the closest of partners with a depth of friendship for decades to come.

Are you suggesting that we have now hit an irreversible momentum?

Absolutely. I would say that, usually when these visits happen, if there are two or three “deliverables”, that’s pretty significant. We have more than 100. Not all of them will even be announced. They are so deep, it’s an all arena-partnership. It goes geographically from the ocean floor to the heavens. It goes on the horizontal axis across the Indo-Pacific. And it goes towards all the things that are important. The four Ps that I talk about, which are peace, prosperity, planet, and people are really reflected in what will come out of this. And that momentum is unstoppable. It wasn’t always inevitable, but I do believe it’s unstoppable.

Put your political hat on for us; what’s the single most important political factor driving this?

You know, call me old-fashioned, but I do believe it comes from a feeling on both sides, first and foremost. People often think that this is just a relationship of convenience. It’s not, I think it’s a relationship of true friendship. We have other countries that have talked about, you know, relationships with no limits and things like that. But I think those are practical kind of political arrangements. This is one in which it probably wouldn’t affect the US that much to not deepen the ties, at least in the short-term with India, we could kind of stay where we are. Some trade disputes, some defence cooperation, a lot of Indians that come here to study and to visit and even to immigrate. And we would be fine as a country. India has its own momentum too. It doesn’t depend on the US to continue that momentum — its growth, its population, its economic rise.

But I think there has been a realisation that there is something exponential about this relationship. It’s not just linear. Instead of three plus three, it is three times three. It allows us to confront common threats. But I think that people who overstate that — we’re brought together by threats — don’t understand the deep opportunities. I think we’re finally recognising that.

I would also say it’s a much more equal relationship. Indian companies are investing in America and creating jobs. And if you said that to an India-watcher, even 10 years ago, they would go, well, wait a second. No, no, no, it’s one way, India is a back office for technology. No. Now it’s a front office and creating IP that rivals anything in the world. The innovations on electronic payments, the focus on certain technological innovations from space to hydrogen that are coming out of India are as good as anywhere in the world. So I think there’s a recognition that India has as much to contribute and to lead as America does, and that’s helping us. I think a friendship has to have that equality. And I think for the first time, there is a depth of that understanding.

What do you make of the two arguments made to criticise the administration’s approach? Sceptics suggest on interests, India isn’t an ally; on values, Indian democracy has eroded.

It is wrong to say that we don’t have shared values. If you are saying a 100% shared values, no two countries, no two people ever do or rarely do. But don’t let the narcissism of small differences, as Freud put it, cloud the convergence of values that are real. Our democracy has questions and challenges. India’s democracy faces challenges and questions, and they are not the same ones always. And I think it’s fair to point out where we can always do better and to welcome that. But secondly, I think values are best promoted by engaging between friends, not walking away from them.

On strategic interest, I find this to be strawmen. I didn’t hear voices saying we are going to amass ground troops in India, or that Indian ships are going to the straits of Taiwan. We know our world and the limitations, and India has been clear that it’s not a part of alliances. But the idea that it’s either that or nothing, there’s 99% in between those two options. When India is doing more military exercises with the US than any other country, that’s a strong strategic statement. When the US is leaning in with military technologies that we have never shared with any nation before, that’s an extremely strong statement. It speaks for itself.

I certainly don’t believe nor does the President believe that you deepen a strategic relationship at the expense of ever talking about values and vice versa. You can find the shared values pretty easily in this relationship. They are the reason for the strategic deepening as much as anything practical.

Both the Indian and American systems are known for delays and difficult bureaucracies. How have you made such quick progress suddenly?

If ever there was a case in point for if there is a will, there is a way, we have proven it. I think for a long time we accepted that there was no way on so many things between our systems. When we forget, systems are made by people, and people who have a desire to deepen a relationship can find their way through. I have been blown away by how quickly things have actually moved. I have to give credit to our leaders. This has directly come from the president and PM who have said, this is important and get this done. And people listen to leaders, and leaders make a difference in history. And I think history will look back at this moment saying, this was something that President Biden wanted to do and was able to achieve. And something that Prime Minister Modi wanted to do and was able to achieve.

Either one of them could have stopped it, only both them together could have made it move forward.

But underneath them too, I think, are a group of people who for a long time have waited for this moment. And we have always looked for the excuses as to get to why not. True friendship and true power are finding a way to get to yes. And sacrificing little something to get a lot more. Weak power is holding on to old rules, regulations, and not yielding or always expecting reciprocity. Strong power is giving because you believe in someone or something. And I think this is a reflection of strong power being exercised between two nations.

The Indian diaspora is seen as a living bridge. But do you think India’s political and religious fault lines are playing out in the diaspora and is that making things difficult too?

It hasn’t made it more difficult. It has made it easier because people now are the living embodiment of this bridge as immigrants, as investors. When Americans wake up and see so many people of Indian descent leading our largest businesses here, there’s no backlash. It’s quite the opposite. There’s almost a pride, an embrace of this is what the American dream is about. I know there is a pride on the Indian side to see Starbucks and Microsoft and Google run by people who embody that. But it also goes down to the spelling bee champions. And, you know, there is more and more familiarity. One in six Americans have been treated by an Indian doctor. That’s the most important thing, your own health and your family’s health. There is an intimacy to the friendship that deep. I would hope that India’s diversity, whether that’s cultural, religious, or political, is reflected in our country, like America, as it is, reflected in India. I know that they live in a democracy here and should be free to express whatever differences or challenges that they have faced. But to me, that’s a reflection of, again, why those values are similar. Values aren’t defined just by a moment or a leader. Values are defined by an entire people. And those values are alive and well.

How much do Indian-American votes matter to the political calculations of your leadership in driving the bilateral relationship?

I was a politician. I don’t think a lot. Different people in different districts look at that. Indian-American community has been very active, in being donors, but it’s not a bloc. I don’t think that there are brokers who say, I can deliver the Indian vote. I think Indian Americans think for themselves and have a wide diversity of parties in different states. There are Republican Indian-Americans in Texas and Democratic Indian-Americans in California, and probably vice versa. I don’t see this as a political calculus on delivering a national Indian vote. I don’t think it exists as such. It’s way too diverse.

But I do think that people listen to their constituents. They listen to the concerns that they have as Americans, and also their ties to the countries that they might have come from or their parents might have come from. And I do think that is a part of American politics in a good way. We need to know India and Indians as well as India and Indians know America and Americans. And I would say that bridge from India is extreme strong. From America, it’s been much weaker.

And one of the legacies I hope this moment leaves behind is an awakening of America to India and Indians beyond, you know, knowing the restaurant, having a friend, meeting the doctor. We need to understand India much more deeply than we have to this point. And I think there has never been a better time. So one of my hopes of this visit is that people’s curiosity about India and Indians deepens and that America can send more students, have more exchanges, enjoy more Indian culture. Look at how South Korea has taken over, you know, with K-pop and squid games stuff. There is such a rich Indian cultural tradition. Now is the time for America to embrace that and to make sure that this moment is more like a movement.

How do you deal with differences, from Ukraine to Bangladesh to Myanmar?

I think we are listening and learning, and I think vice versa. The strongest of marriages, of friendships, of relationships always have plenty of difference. But the key is listening and learning and understanding each other, and at a difficult moment, being able to express those differences and hear them.

We will never abandon our values. We can’t stop speaking out about an unprovoked war of aggression by Russians in Ukraine. And as I remind Indians, India cares a lot about borders and sovereignty. It’s a pretty clear issue. Governments have more constraints than people. But I also am engaging as ambassador, not just at the government to government level, which has been wonderful and very fruitful so far, but also at the everyday level. If you ask the average Indian about who is right and who is wrong in Ukraine, there’s not a lot of ambiguity. And it hits close to home. And I also say, look, regardless of history or constraints because of military procurement — any by the way, history is real when Soviet Union was there and we weren’t — today, where is the future?

Is it with countries that are autocracies that are aggressive and cross national borders? Or is the future, whether you call it an alliance or not, deepening your relationship and partnerships with countries that still are democracies, are not trying to project power, and look at technology is something to improve people’s lives, not to oppress people or control their lives. And, in those areas, the US and India are totally congruent and I think have a role, not just with each other, but a role in the world. If we can strengthen our friendship, we can help ensure those values are protected in other places, whether it’s in the region of South Asia, whether it’s in the Middle East, whether it’s Africa, Latin America. I think we really can do a lot of trilateral, quadrilateral work together around the world. And India being this bridge from north, south, east, west, the past and the future can be a real partner to the US so that we are not in the developing world just seen as oh, that northern state coming here telling people what to do, but really a democracy saying that there is a choice in this world to stand for democratic values and to stand for freedom and to stand for rule of law or not. And that’s a pretty clear choice.

Has it struck you that the US system seems more publicly committed to the relationship than India?

I respectfully disagree. I respect India’s desire to be a great power, to have its independence and not be anybody’s vassal or anybody’s ally. India deserves to be just as strong as America in setting its own agenda. But I got to say that, in the Indian press, I have been reading things about how the US is the most dependable partner now for India and the world. When you look at polling, 80% of Indians have a positive feeling about the US. I think that this is both from the highest levels of government to, to the streets of India, something that’s very deeply felt. So I don’t think that it’s not being talked about on that side too.

Maybe it’s so taken for granted. Every Indian has some relative, some friend or they themselves who have come to the US, studied, knows somebody in the US, or working for an American company. It is almost taken for granted. It doesn’t have to be as explicitly said. You might hear it more here because it’s newer. America is like, let me talk about that. That’s a really important partnership. I would argue this friend has always been there waiting for us to deepen that friendship and vice versa. I would say in India, we are so much a part of Indian life and culture and connections that it was time for us to finally kind of bring that into life.

In the three months or so you have been in India, what was the most pleasant surprise or shock?

The amount of Indian food I can continue eating (laughs). Where I really viscerally felt the change was when I went to Hyderabad. I saw the new India physically, literally coming up. You could feel it in the amount of construction and buildings and companies and investment and the size of the incubator I went to. I mean, it’s one thing to read statistics, it’s another thing to feel the physical world being built inside of India. That’s when it really hit me. I was like I see the future, the future of India and the future of this world. The future is AI, but I think it stands for America and India.