HT interview: Have never used religion for politics, says Digvijaya Singh

Hindutva is an identity given by Savarkar who himself said that it has no relationship with religion, says the senior Congress leader

Two-time former chief minister Digvijaya Singh has been a prominent face of the Congress for the past three decades in Madhya Pradesh though he has been around in politics for half a century. He remains a power centre in the poll-bound state while letting another former CM, Kamal Nath, his time under the spotlight in the ongoing campaign. Excerpts from an interview:

Even as chief minister, I was low profile to the extent that I did not ever put up my face in the government’s campaign posters or advertisements, says the leader (PTI)

As you don’t shy away from questions, let’s take up a ticklish one to start with. Why is your campaign in MP so self-effacingly low profile this time?

What you’re saying is absolutely incorrect. Even as chief minister, I was low profile to the extent that I did not ever put up my face in the government’s campaign posters or advertisements. I don’t want (such publicity).

How can you do without that?

I’ve done it till now. Even today, when I’m touring, five things are a taboo. My face shouldn’t be there on posters/banners; no narebaazi (sloganeering) for Digvijaya Singh; no garlands; no band-baaja (drum beating) and no fireworks. Devoid of these, anybody can talk to me, meet me. My place was an open house from 9.30 to 11 in the morning when I was CM. To me politics is access first: sampark, samvad, samanvyay, samanjasya and sakaratmak soch (popular connect, dialogue, coordination, co-existence and creative thinking).

In what you’re saying, you come across as Mayawati (of Bahujan Samaj Party) who networks through party cadres. She has little use for media exposure. Is that a proper comparison?

It’s an honour for me to be compared with Mayawati ji. But sorry, I don’t agree.

The general perception is that in these elections you’re at the backseat and Kamal Nath at the steering wheel. Is there any backseat driving happening?

No question... no question.

Why? You must also be having your point of view.

If you know Kamal Nath, you’d know if he’s on the wheel, he doesn’t want anyone else.

And you’re comfortable with that?

I’m quite happy.

Why’s it so? Are you convinced that he’s steering the vehicle in the right direction?

Yes, because he is! If there’s a need for course correction, then the person sitting next to him for directions always does that. In a car rally, there always a person sitting next to the driver to give course correction if there’s something wrong.

So you’re seated next to him and not on the back seat?

No, certainly not! You can say I’m by his side.

There were reports that you initially volunteered to the party leadership and to Kamal Nath that you’d focus on the sixty-odd seats the Congress hasn’t won for many years. Are you really confining to those constituencies?

The party and Kamal Nath chose 66 assembly segments where we have been losing continuously. They gave me the task to take stock of the situation there through conversations with people and the party cadres. I’ve spent at least half a day in each segment, meeting and holding talks with all elected Congress workers. Based on these interactions that at times lasted 6-8 hours, I’ve given my report to the Pradesh Congress Committee president (Kamal Nath) along with names of people who could contest. That had to be done as we didn’t have good candidates to start with. A survey was (subsequently) done and by and large, the candidatures have been from among the names I suggested.

How hopeful are you of their success?

Very hopeful. Not only will we recover lost ground, our strike rate will be high.

From the early years of your career, you’ve styled your politics after the late Arjun Singh in the sense that you are an uncompromising secularist; a sort of secular radical in your approach. But Kamal Nath’s politics in these polls is viewed as “soft-Hindutva” while it may not be so because secularism doesn’t mean keeping out the majority (denomination); it means co-opting all communities. To be specific, are you happy with the symbolism of Lord Hanuman in Kamal Nath’s poll pitch and thereby of the Congress?

You’re contradicting yourself. Secularism can never be radical...

I mean dyed-in-the-wool secularist.

In that case you don’t understand secularism; radicalism and secularism are divergent poles. You must understand that there’s no such thing as Hindutva in our Sanatana Dharma. Hindutva is an identity given by Savarkar who himself said that it has no relationship with religion. The media gets it wrong when it uses terms such as soft-Hindutva. You need to understand that India is a religious country and Sanatana Dharma is all-encompassing. Swami Vivekanand said the essence of all religions is humanism, insaniyat: satya, ahimsa, prem, sadbhav (truth, non-violence, love and harmony). They’re about how one should be a good human being? Religion being important, people started coming up with myth and mythology that have their own connotations. The other aspect is of rituals prescribing the mode of prayers. Unfortunately, rituals, myth and mythology have become more important than the essence of religion.... I am a devout, practising Hindu. My religion does not teach me to hate anyone whoever he may be. I’m against religious fundamentalism of radicals of every religion.

So, are you comfortable with the symbolism on display in Kamal Nath’s campaign?

No! My point is that religion should never be used in politics. I am against it.

But it’s being used...

That’s for Kamal Nath to decide. I’m no judge for that. I’ve never used religion for politics.

At the same time you’re deeply religious...

Of course I am. Tell me one person who has walked 3,200km along the banks of Narbada (river). Tell me one person who fasts on every Ekadashi? In my old (family) fort we have nine temples. My mother was extremely religious.

You said Sanatana Dharma is all-inclusive. But there’s a controversy over it as well....

Unfortunately issues within the Sanatana Dharma are being misunderstood. The varna vyawastha (caste hierarchy) came much later, untouchability came much later. Persecution of the poor is not part of Sanatan Dharma. Those who are criticising Sanatana Dharma have not understood it. It means affection for all.

Shouldn’t you have a discussion on it with your party’s ally in Tamil Nadu, the DMK (whose leadership rejects Sanatan Dharma)?

Why not? You see, varna vyashtha came after Manusmriti. Sanatana Dharma is much older.

Let us come to hard politics. Is this election between Kamal Nath and Mama (Shivraj Chauhan of the BJP) or between Kamal Nath and Prime Minister Narendra Modi?

It’s an election against the BJP’s corruption and misgovernance. There’s huge anger among the youth. The Vyapam scam continues, cash for jobs continues and the beneficiaries are the BJP. Youth have been cheated of their rightful jobs. Even those selected weren’t given employment. There’s no A versus B or B versus C. Politics is not of people, it’s of policies.

Are you sure the people will vote with application of mind and not get swayed by emotions?

There’s huge emotional anger against the present regime. People feel cheated and want change.

But the BJP thinks the PM will turn the tide in Hindi-speaking MP, unlike in Karnataka where his oratorical skills didn’t fully work on account of language barrier.

He stands exposed. People in villages call him a liar (jhootha). His guarantees have no meaning for he hasn’t kept his word. The poor have turned poorer and the rich richer. He promised to get black money stashed abroad back to the country. But his friends scooted abroad with thousands of crore of public money. There’s anger even against Modi.

Yet there are reports of the Congress not doing all that well in the crucial Malwa-Nimar region.

You’d be surprised. I was told that last time also but we did better.

You hope to do better in all regions?

Yes, except in the central region which is Bhopal and around.

What’s your seat projection? Last time you were a trifle off the mark.

I’d told you 126 but we got 114/130. I was expecting 17/27 seats in vindhya pradesh and about 4/7 in Mandsaur-Neemuch which was the centre of the kisan movement. But we got only 7 and lost ten in vindhya and one of the seven in Mandsaur. I misjudged over a dozen seats.

Then what’s your tally for the Congress this time?

130-plus. I’m sure that we’d improve in every region of the state.

Is there a wave?

There’s no wave; there’s anger. People want to change the government.

Given the Samajwadi Party’s outbursts for being denied seats, the Congress may win in MP but the INDIA grouping might lose.

The INDIA alliance is at the national level. State bodies have been authorised to deal with state-level alliances if any.