Swanand Kirkire, lyricist – “No song is emotionless”
The lyricist on pouring life experiences into songs, why music directors are like batsmen, and the songs he wishes he had written
Tell me about your childhood. How did you begin writing songs?
Not even in my wildest dreams as a child did I ever think that I’d be a songwriter. I was in a very middle-class family in Indore. My parents were working at a bank and simultaneously learning music. They were disciples of Kumar Gandharva. But culturally, in the city of Indore, there was nothing happening that would produce a songwriter. There was no such environment. The only place was Pandit Kumar Gandharva’s house where sometimes, if I got the window, I would get exposed to art. The other thing was theatre. Everything that has happened in my life springs from theatre. It was because of theatre that I started reading things and getting attracted to literature and songs. My uncle used to do theatre and so I sometimes would go there. But my parents wanted me to finish my graduation before I got into theatre fill time. At that time, in Indore, there was nothing specific one would do in theatre. We were involved in amateur theatre. Sometimes, I’d write, sometimes, direct, sometimes work on the lighting. Indore did not have the kind of college theatre that Bombay or Delhi have. Once in a year, sometimes, for Ganesh Utsav, we would do a play. Maharashtra Rajya shows and competitions would happen in Bombay or Delhi and we would apply for that. Most of the theatre I was involved in at this time was Marathi. Sometimes, we would have one show in Indore, one in Nagpur or Jalgaon. We were happy people coming together to do theatre for fun. That’s it. Also, cinema was a passion. I grew up in the 1970s and ’80s. My mother showed me plays and films. Gulzar was writing at the time. I read a magazine article about Ebrahim Alkazi, who was then the director of the National School of Drama, that said that it was because of him that people like Naseeruddin Shah and Om Puri became the actors they are. At that time, I had no idea how to get to NSD. I was not good at studies and was failing everywhere else. I became a commerce graduate just for the sake of it. I am a person for whom no method has ever worked.
Once, an NSD workshop was held in Indore. At the time, I was an ad-hoc worker at a bank and on a daily wage. I left the job and joined the workshop. That was the first time I met serious actors who were spoke about acting as a passion, acting as a science and acting as a career-option. I was hearing all this for the first time and was getting fascinated by these ideas. That was also where I heard some songs for the first time. Ashish Vidyarthi was one of the people at the workshop and he sang us a few fascinating songs from a play by a theatre group called Act One. They were written and composed by Piyush Mishra. We are talking about the year 1991. I thought those songs were as good as, if not better than, any film song I had heard. When I inquired, the people there told me that they wrote their own plays and songs. It was a mind-blowing experience. I asked Ashish if I could go with him to Delhi and join Act One. Initially he was hesitant but then he agreed. I fought with my parents and went to Delhi. An uncle offered me to a place to stay for a month or two. I joined Act One, which was one vibrant theatre group in Delhi. MK Sharma was the director and people like Ashish Vidyarthi, Manoj Bajpayee, Piyush Mishra and Gajraj Rao were all part of the group. That was the first time I saw Piyush Mishra in action. MK Sharma would ask him to write a song for a scene; he would go to a corner and come back with a song. One of them was Jab Sheher Hamara Sota Hai…, which was used in Gulaal many years later. I was fascinated. He was doing this kind of writing real-time, and it was of top-notch quality. They were as good as Gulzar sahab’s or Javed Akhtar sahab’s songs for films. In the group, people would even sing the songs; there used to be chorus singers as well. People talked about big Hollywood films and stars. It was a great environment to be in. Later, people told me that if I did theatre in Delhi for too long, NSD wouldn’t accept me. It had happened to people before. So then I went back to Indore and started working on a play written by Mahesh Elkunchvar. The original was not a musical but we wanted to make it one.
That’s when I wrote songs for the first time. I think I wrote four songs. Another friend of mine from Indore also wrote a few songs. We also wrote a few new scenes for the script and put up the play. People liked it. After that, I thought, okay, this what I want to do in life. Then, I went to NSD and studied there. While I was there, I wrote a few songs for Vaman Kendre and they loved them. One day, when Piyush Mishra was out, RK Sharma asked me to write a few songs for Act One. By that time, it was established in the circle that this boy could write songs. I had also written a play on Bhagat Singh. In 1997, India’s 50th year of independence, Manju Singh, who was making a TV show on Bhagat Singh, once happened to see my play and decided to hire me. For that, I moved to Bombay. It was a Doordarshan show called Swaraj, which I wrote. I was one of the lucky few who came to Bombay with a ready source of income. It’s another story that the source vanished after a couple of months and I had to struggle to find work and survive for a year or two.
How similar or different are song writing and poetry?
Poetry and song writing are totally different for me. Poetry is something you write for yourself, often, without even thinking about what people would make of it. It’s a very personal and pure art. In song writing, the most important thing is that it is meant to be heard. In poetry, however, there are occasions when sometimes you don’t even want to share your work with anyone else. But songs are meant to be heard and appreciated by people. Also, they need to have a certain lyrical quality and they should be married to a certain kind of music – whatever kind of music it may be in each case. For instance, a Piya Piya song may not work with rap music and a rap song may not work with Piya Piya lyrics. Hindi film song writing is a specific trade; a Hindi film song has a specific purpose to fulfil. It often needs to inform people about a character, the story, as well as the opinion of the filmmaker while evoking a certain kind of emotion. Sometimes, poetry can become a film song but not always.
Is there a process to writing a song?
Yes, everybody has an internal process that they follow. If you ask mine, I always look for the most urgent need of the song in a particular situation. In Behti Hawa Sa Tha Woh from 3 Idiots, the situation was that two friends are looking for an absconding friend and the song also had to introduce that missing friend. It was a need of the script. I had read the script multiple times. I thought the urgent need, for me, was what these friends think of the friend instead of getting into what the filmmaker thinks of that friend. And that cracked the whole song for me. Hum aise the, who waisa tha. That was the pattern I followed. “Humko toh raahein thi chalati, woh apni raah chalata…” That’s what establishes how the third friend, Rancho, is or was different from them.
Between writing to the tune and writing before it, what do you prefer?
When you start off, you obviously find it easy to write first and then let the tune get created. And you imagine writing to the tune to be a tough task. But slowly, you learn the craft. And learn to write to the tune as well. Today, if you ask me, I am equally comfortable with both. Sometimes, while writing to the tune, you also discover another set of words and it can be very interesting. In our industry, of course, sometimes, we get to write before the tune but mostly, it is the tune that is composed before the song is written. In popular understanding in the industry, people get tune more easily than lyrics. So it can work both ways. Most people in my generation write to the tune.
Does a lot of life experience come into writing a song?
It’s not possible to write anything that is completely devoid of life experience. No song is emotionless. Unless you have related it to your life, you cannot write a song. You always go back and think what would you do or feel in the situation which the song is for. For instance, Chaar Kadam, from the film PK, comes from one of my poems. Now I don’t remember which life situation I had written that poem in but I was happy with the idea that life is just a moment. Can we spend this moment without knowing who we are? This was my idea. My poem was Bin bole, bin kahe sune, bas hathon mein hath dhare…chaar kadam bas chaar kadam, ek saanj chaloge saath mere? In the song, I modified it to: Bin kuch kahe, bin kuch sune, hathon mein hath liye…char kadam bass chaar kadam, chaldo na saath mere. And lines like “rasmon ko rakhke pare” were additional lines. Basically, this comes from my philosophy of life. I don’t want to know your name, you don’t want to know my name and can the purest form of love still happen? Just for a moment? That comes from my life. My thoughts come from my life. So whether it is a song or even an advertising jingle that I have written, it always has something to do with my own life experience and ideas.
Do you think writing to metre and, in turn, writing a song itself is an innate talent that can’t be learnt?
There is nothing in the world that you cannot learn if you spend enough time and hard work on it. Singing, for instance, or song writing cannot be taught. But it can be learnt. If you decide to learn it, you can. Music is all about awareness. It is about whether you are aware of the faculties that make you sense some frequencies. If you truly try, you can become aware of them.
Tell me about the process of writing one of my favourite songs -- Bavra Mann Dekhne Chala Ek Sapna?
To tell you the truth, the first line of that song was something I had thought of in a rickshaw, while I was humming something. I used to laugh at myself in those days, when I was new to Bombay. Where have I come from, what am I doing here, roaming around in local trains? So the line Bavra man dekhne chala ek sapna was on my mind. One of my friends heard it and told me it was beautiful. I didn’t know if anyone else would ever listen to the song but I knew it was good so I finished it pretty much in one draft, excluding a few basic edits later. It was more of a stream of consciousness thing that I wrote it in. This was written about three years before the film Hazaron Khwahishen Aisi was made. But in the film circuit and at parties, this song had already started doing the rounds. Two songs had become very popular in the filmy party circuit back then - this song and Kailash Kher’s Allah Ke Bande. Both eventually got into films. I was assisting Sudhir Mishra on Hazaron Khwahishen Aisi and KK Menon heard my song and told Sudhir Mishra to listen to it. He liked it and the song made it to the film. Bavra Mann became a success without any marketing or promotion. Because of some rights issues, it is still not available on any streaming platform.
Tell me about writing songs like Ashiyan and Sawali Si Raat for Barfi?
I wrote three songs for Barfi. The title track – Ala Barfi and the two you mentioned. Whenever an artist is made to feel comfortable and given freedom, magic happens. Anurag Basu, the director, said that he wanted my song. That’s it. He made me feel safe and secure. Your state of mind reflects straightaway in your song. In Barfi, everyone feels secure and loved. The brief was: “Create song magic.” That’s it. In Ala Barfi, I introduced the character. In the other two, even that is not a need. Ashiyan is about their relationship and since the characters were a little childlike, I changed “Itni si hasee” to “Itti si hasee”. That change of one word creates all the magic. In Sawali Si Raat, the line Khwabon ki razai mein baat ho teri meri comes from childhood. You must have spoken to someone under a blanket when you were little -- it comes from all those things. As I said, everything has to do with trust and safety.
Tell me about the songs for the film Khoya Khoya Chand.
I think a lot has to do with Sudhir (Mishra). We had worked together earlier and had a rapport. It was a fun experience working on that film. Khoya Khoya Chand is a period film and I wanted to create a sense of that era through my lyrics. In those days, even a song situated in a club would be philosophical. Like for instance, Sahir sahab’s Aage Bhi Jane Na Tu or Babuji Dheere Chalna. I wanted to write something big, you know, in terms of thought. Also, I decided to use words and images from that era like “shama”, “paravana”, etc. which people no longer use or even understand today. I used a very different vocabulary for that film which I usually never use, a lot of Urdu-inspired shayari. For instance, “Naye naye se dard ki firak mein talash mein udaas hai dil”. I don’t usually write like this but I had gotten into the world of Urdu poetry. Just like an actor prepares for a role, a song writer, too, prepares for his role.
These days, some people are quite gung ho about the concept of hook lines. Where do you stand on that?
In the search for hook lines, we have forgotten the meaning of songs. You tell me which songs are being appreciated today. People are not getting anything from songs like these. It’s not about good or bad. It’s about trends. The industry always follows trends. And then there are trendsetters. They are the ones who take risks. They sometimes fail and nobody cares about them but once something that they do clicks, others start following the trend. In professional song writing, do you think that a writer needs to assemble a set of keywords before writing the song!
What is it like for a song writer to work with different music directors? How do they influence the lyrics you write?
My biggest collaborator who is a music director is Shantanu Moitra followed by Amit Trivedi. Working with different music directors is like batting with different batsmen. You have to adapt to their style and pace. And learn on the job. Rigidity is the enemy of a writer; fluidity is their strength. Sometimes, a Bengali music director will come from some regional influences. Another time, a Gujrati composer will come from his own experience. For instance, the song Meethi Boliyan from the film Kaay Po Che. Amit Trivedi was humming something and the word boliyan was hidden in his humming itself, which I picked up. Shantanu is very open. He can even change the tune on the spot for the lyrics. He can add two, four, sometimes even eight lines, to a song if the lyrics demand it.
Who are your favourite song writers and which are your favourite songs or Hindi film albums?
There are many, many. And I love them all. But if you ask me who has inspired me the most, it started from Gulzar. Then Piyush Mishra, who was the first song writer I ever saw in action. Then another person I have read very carefully is Shailendra. After that is a long list -- Sahir Ludhianvi, Kaifi Azmi, Rajendra Krishna.
Among albums, I think Pyaasa and Kagaz Ke Phool are vital. Gulzar sahab’s Ijazat is something I love a lot. Then his film album called Mere Apne which features the song Koi Hota Jisko Apna. Then Shailendra sahab’s album Madhumati. I love Hum Dono as an album. Sahir sahab’s Allah Tero Naam as well as Abhi Na Jao Chhod Kar are brilliant. Honestly, it’s a long, long list and however many names I mention, I would miss out on something.
Among your own songs, which is your favourite?
Well, I have enjoyed some songs more than others; some have satisfied me more. For instance, the title track of Khoya Khoya Chand is one such. Then a song from Parineeta, which is just about darkness, which goes like: “Raat hamari toh chand ki saheli hai… kitne dino ke baad aayi woh akeli hai”. I like Ala Barfi a lot. Then there was a song I had written for Hunter, which I quite like. I also have some unsung songs which I like.
Are there songs that you haven’t written but wish you had?
Yes, there are songs like that, for sure. Mann kasturi re, jag dasturi re by Varun Grover, Abhi Na Jao Chhod Kar by Sahir Ludhianvi, many songs by Gulzar sahab. Like, I love Beedi Jalai Le and wish I had written it. In fact, I think it would be amazing to work with Vishal (Bharadwaj). I have never worked with him. He works so well with Gulzar sahab that one wouldn’t want to bother than pairing but somewhere, someday, I hope to work with Vishal. Something of the calibre of Omkara. It is one of my favourite albums ever. You remember that song which Vishal has sung himself – O Sathi Re? What a song! Tere dohre badan se sil jaungi main… tu karvat lega, chhil jaungi main. Wow, what writing!
Mihir Chitre is the author of two books of poetry, ‘School of Age’ and ‘Hyphenated’. He is the brain behind the advertising campaigns ‘#LaughAtDeath’ and ‘#HarBhashaEqual’ and has made the short film ‘Hello Brick Road’.
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