PM Modi’s visit will be game changer for bilateral ties: Egypt ambassador
Besides the co-production of military equipment, the two sides will discuss Egypt’s offer of a dedicated slot for India within the Suez Canal Economic Zone
Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Egypt during June 24-25 is being seen as a game changer for bilateral ties, with the two sides expected to put in place arrangements to ramp up cooperation in areas ranging from security to trade and investment, Egyptian ambassador Wael Mohamed Awad Hamed has said.
Besides the co-production of military equipment, the two sides will discuss Egypt’s offer of a dedicated slot for India within the Suez Canal Economic Zone. Indian investments in green hydrogen and tourism are other areas with great potential, Hamed said in an exclusive interview. Here are edited excerpts:
Q. Between Egypt President Abdel Fattah El-Sisi’s visit in January and Prime Minister Modi’s visit to Egypt, how has the bilateral relationship progressed?
A. I think these two visits are game-changers. The last bilateral visit by an Indian prime minister to Egypt was in 1997. At that time, there was a different leadership in Egypt and in India, and the world was different. The whole world, the international context and the polarisation was different. It was very disappointing for me, as an ambassador, to see Egypt-India relations, which have traditionally been very strong, did not continue with the same momentum that we had in the 1950s and 1960s.
Unfortunately, we had the period of the 1990s and the first two decades of this century that were very quiet in the bilateral context, except for two visits that our president made to India, in 2015 to participate in the India-Africa Forum and in 2016 as a bilateral visit. Since 2016, we were hoping the prime minister will have a chance to make a return visit to Egypt. Of course, many things came in between the positive intents. There was the Covid-19 pandemic and the attack on Ukraine that kept the whole world busy, trying to navigate the changes in international circumstances.
In 2022, our president received a very gracious invitation from the prime minister to be the chief guest for Republic Day, and I see it as a game-changer. Both Prime Minister Modi and our president came to their positions in 2015. Both leaders have the same priorities in mind – the modernisation of their countries, industrialisation, job creation, development and environmental awareness. All these issues are related to problems currently being faced by the developing world. Finally, they will sit together after many years, they can tackle things together and put it bilaterally, and also in the perspective of the G20 because Egypt has been invited as a guest country under India’s G20 presidency.
The choice of Egypt did not come out of anything – there were very strong reasons behind this. The first one is that both Egypt and India are developing countries. Both see eye to eye on many things. We can reinforce each other’s position on the international front. The second is Egypt held the COP27 Summit in Sharm-el-Sheikh in November last year and India is now the G20 president. COP27 is all about coming forward to the international community with environmentally sound projects that will help the planet survive environmental challenges. If we come to the G20, finance and how to finance development is one of the most important issues. It was an apparent coming together of two countries that are working for the same thing and advocating their positions on finance from one side and the environment on the other side. These are topics that are very important and relevant not only to the two countries but personally to the two leaders.
Q. This visit comes at a time of change in West Asia. We have seen Saudi Arabia and Iran coming together after a long time. Can India and Egypt work more closely together, with Egypt serving as a gateway not just to the Arab world but also to Africa?
A. This is very true. This is one of the things that was a little disappointing to me. It seemed to me when I arrived here, that India’s interests in the region were limited to primarily focusing on the Gulf countries and rarely going beyond. From the Egyptian side as well, the area of interest was the Arab world and then up to the Gulf region. But we are living in an ever-integrating world. Despite the problems created by the Ukraine crisis, or even maybe because of the problems that happened due to the Ukraine crisis, we are starting to realise that any problems that take place in the world are transboundary, they simply do not stay in that particular location or region and they spread outside.
The connection between Egypt and India is very obvious. For India, the security of the Indian Ocean is very much related to the security of the Red Sea. For Egypt, the security of the Suez Canal, a primary artery of international trade, is part of the security of the Red Sea and therefore is affected by security in the Indian Ocean. Both of them are closely interlinked.
From an economic perspective, I always say this is one of the areas that has been neglected for so long. If you look at the map, you’ll find Egypt is exactly halfway between ports in western India and Europe. This means that by relocating to Egypt or having a presence in Egypt, economic actors or investors will be cutting down on the cost of freight, fuel and insurance. You will also be cutting down on time, which is very important. “We have seen over the past two years that the supply chains internationally have become very challenging and very time sensitive. By being located in Egypt, you can be responsive to changes in supply chains and therefore, we are offering India a very promising opportunity of taking Egypt as a springboard to three regions – Europe, the Middle East and the whole of Africa.
India is the most populous country and it is a huge market of 1.4 billion people, but I also have to draw your attention to the fact that Egypt itself has 110 million people, which is the largest population in the area, one of the largest in Africa as well, but relatively small compared to India. But if you look at Egypt in terms of market access, you will find that we have access to all these three areas because we have free trade agreements with all of them. This means Egypt has access to a market of approximately 1.4 billion people as well. It’s not fair or realistic to look at Egypt as a relatively small domestic market, which is the case, but in terms of outreach, it’s as big as India.
Q. Is this the thinking behind Egypt offering a dedicated zone within the Suez Canal Economic Zone?
A. This is exactly the reason and it is not that we are only offering a location, but we are offering facilities that are already on the ground in the Suez Canal Economic Zone. We already have six ports in place. One of them is East Port Said, which is one of the biggest container terminals in the eastern Mediterranean. We are offering an area that is already established, with the infrastructure and facilities needed by the industry, and we are providing a lot of incentives. Exactly for these reasons, other countries have been very interested in having an industrial zone in the Suez Canal. One of them is Russia, another is China. We are working with them on establishing industrial zones and I believe India is in a position to have an industrial zone like this and it’s going to be very beneficial for both parties.
Q. Have you had progress in the talks on this?
A. Yes, this is something that was proposed by President Sisi when he was here. The [Indian] prime minister was very responsive to this and we are currently discussing how things are going to proceed. Shortly before the prime minister’s visit, we expect a visit [to India] by the Chairman of the Suez Canal Economic Zone. He will be in Delhi and Mumbai and he’s going to discuss this. The idea obviously was very attractive to the Indian side, but we need to elaborate.
Q. What agreements will be signed during this visit?
A. There are four or five agreements, on agriculture, small and medium-sized enterprises, information technology, trade promotion, and culture, which is a very important aspect of our relationship. We are also working to have the strategic partnership agreement ready and hopefully, it will be signed during the visit.
Q. The Indian side has offered to meet Egypt’s need for fighter jets, and there are reports Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has offered to set up a manufacturing line in Egypt. What is the latest on this?
A. I think defence cooperation is very important in our relationship and it’s based on the degree of comfort that we have between each other. You have to establish this comfort in order for defence cooperation to [move forward]. It is obvious from the number of joint exercises that we have, the kind of exchanges of expertise that we have, and the visits by Indian naval vessels to Egypt. There is this feeling of comfort and it’s very indicative as well that during the participation of our president as chief guest on the Republic Day, there was an Egyptian contingent marching side by side with Indian counterparts. This was the third time in history that this happened. This is a sign of the degree of comfort that we have in dealing with defence issues with the Indian side.
When it comes to military equipment, it is important to note that Egypt has a good base of military industries. Therefore, cooperation between both sides should not be limited to simply purchasing [equipment]. The idea is rather, how both sides can learn from each other’s experiences, and co-produce military equipment together using the experience of both sides. We had this project in the 1960s [to develop a jet engine for India’s first home-grown fighter]. Unfortunately, it did not come to fruition and unfortunately, we drifted apart a little bit in this area. But I think the time is very right. With the kind of comfort that we have between us, we can start talking about co-production. I think this is one of the issues that are being discussed.
Q. Green hydrogen is an area where three agreements have been signed by Indian firms with Egypt. Have these projects taken off?
A. Not yet, but they are on the way. We started by signing three memoranda of understanding between the companies and the Egyptian government. Then we took these MoUs and transformed them into framework agreements. It has become legally binding on both sides, and there is a commitment on both sides that there are going to be investments from these three companies in Egypt, and this is something I think will take our bilateral relationship to an unprecedented height.
Because if we look now at the level of Indian investments in Egypt, we’ll find that it’s approximately $3.5 billion. This is a good number, something that we appreciate, something that we think provides us with a good base, but these three agreements will add $20 billion. So [it will increase] seven-fold, it will take us to a completely new level of cooperation. Green hydrogen is the fuel of the future. I think we are building a very strong partnership in the energy sector and it’s going to bring better opportunities for our economic relationship.
Q. How do you plan to strengthen long-standing cultural links between the two sides, such as the influence of Bollywood in Egypt, and is there any talk of having a migration and mobility partnership agreement?
A. You mentioned Bollywood and the effect of Indian movies in Egypt and here I have to mention that to this very day, the most popular foreign actors in Egypt are not Robert De Niro and Brad Pitt – rather, it is Shah Rukh Khan and Amitabh Bachchan. This shows the extent of the cultural relationship and affinity. You talk to the average Egyptian in the street, who has never been to India, and you mention India and the first thing that will come to his mind is Bollywood and Amitabh Bachchan. We are trying to reinvigorate this cultural connect and we hope more and more Indian movies are going to be shot in Egypt. Not only that we screen Indian movies, but we also shoot Indian movies in Egypt because this is one of the things that Egypt is unique for, its culture and monuments.
This brings me to tourism, which is very important for both countries. Unfortunately, until now, tourism between Egypt and India was constrained by the fact that we only have one direct flight between both countries – Mumbai to Cairo. This was very surprising, given that both capitals are two of the largest capitals of the world, the two countries are very friendly to each other, and Egyptian and Indian tourists are very culturally aware. When Indian tourists go to Egypt, they don’t simply go to beaches and resorts and Egyptians, when they come here, they’re primarily interested in seeing all the historical and cultural sites. I’m glad to tell you that hopefully, before the end of July, we are going to have a direct flight between Cairo and New Delhi, and tourism is going to be a more important component of our bilateral relationship.
When this happens, I think the possibility of speaking about mobility will become easier, because now if we speak about mobility and we look at the numbers, you will find that there is no reason for that. Unfortunately, the number of Indian tourists in Egypt, at its highest level back in 2019, didn’t exceed 150,000. I think the number of Egyptian tourists in India has been very small, compared to the potential of the Egyptian market. I have noticed over the past year and a half, Egyptian tourists have become more interested in exploring new destinations, especially in Asia. After all, Egyptian tourists going abroad don’t seek resorts or beaches because we have some of the best in the world. What they are looking for is culture, history, something that resonates with our experiences. Tourism is going to open new horizons for us. I have always believed that people-to-people contacts is the true foundation of any kind of bilateral relationship. When tourists come and go, they look with open eyes and they can identify business and trade opportunities and cultural aspects of cooperation.
The more people-to-people contacts we have, the better the bilateral relationship will be. Therefore, after the visit of my president to India in January and with the visit of the prime minister to Cairo this month, with the launch of the direct connection between Cairo and New Delhi, along with the possibility of having an industrial zone for India in Egypt – these are all things that will really solidify our relations and take them to new horizons.