Oppn may try different coalitions, but can’t match Modi’s popularity: Thakur

There is no real challenger to the popularity of Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his politics of development, Union minister Anurag Thakur told HT in an interview.

Despite attempts by opposition parties to coalesce a front against the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), there is no real challenger to the popularity of Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his politics of development, Union minister Anurag Thakur told HT in an interview, in which he also spoke about the lack of internal democracy in the Congress and other regional parties, whether the Aam Aadmi Party (AAP) can emerge as a challenger, and self-regulation in media, among other issues. Edited excerpts:

Union minister for information and broadcasting Anurag Thakur. (PTI file photo)

The BJP has already started preparations for the 2024 general election. Several political parties are also trying to coalesce a joint opposition against the BJP. How do you see the electoral battle shaping?

If you look at the BJP’s way of working, it is a cadre-based party; our emphasis is always on strengthening the organisation and we take every poll seriously, and that is why we started preparations 15 months in advance. For example, if I am in charge of one cluster, I will be reporting back how we are strengthening the cadre at the booth level, how we are helping the local administration in implementing central government schemes, and making them more accountable. I’m looking after Maharashtra and my first constituency visit was to Kalyan, which is also the constituency of CM Eknath Shinde’s son Shrikant Shinde. In 2014 and 2019, it was with the BJP’s help that the alliance partner won the seat. So strengthening the BJP at the grassroots level, implementing the Modi government’s schemes, will finally help the BJP and its allies on the ground.

You just mentioned that the allies won with the BJP’s support. In 2024, there are many states where the BJP will be contesting alone, for instance in Punjab and Bihar, because the number of allies has shrunk. How will that augur for the BJP?

If you look at the Opposition’s Mahagathbandhan (grand alliance), whether it was during the 2014 (Lok Sabha) or 2017 or 2022 Uttar Pradesh elections, a large alliance was contesting against the BJP, but look at the result. It is the popularity of PM Modi, and it is the beneficiaries who benefited from our policies in the last eight years. We have delivered more in the last eight years than others have in the last 60 years. I’ve said it several times, saath se behtar aath (eight better than 60). Under PM Modi’s leadership, Aatmanirbhar Bharat (self-reliant India) is gaining ground in every sector.

Do you think that with 303 seats, the BJP has reached its saturation in many states and the scope for growth may be limited, and there may be anti-incumbency? How will you counter that?

If you look at the growth of the BJP, before 2014, we were not in Tripura, Assam, in Haryana etc. We have expanded and now have governments in many states. There are many states in the south and in the North-East where we have expanded well and I still see a lot of possibility of expansion and growth in many areas. The reason for that is the delivery, the reforms that we have brought in and the way we have improved the delivery mechanism through Direct Benefit Transfer (DBT), Jan Dhan or Aadhaar, or during the Covid pandemic, from vaccination to free foodgrain. We have touched a larger section of the society which has benefited.

You were in-charge of UP as well, would you say the free foodgrain scheme was one of the biggest factors for the BJP’s win in UP?

Not really. The big issues in UP before 2017 were the law-and-order situation, the crime rate, no investments and corruption. People have seen Mayawati’s Bahujan Samaj Party and Akhilesh Yadav’s Samajwadi Party government, when they compared it with Yogi Adityanath’s government, they could see a decisive leader who could deliver, soch imandaar, kaam damdar (clean intent, decisive work). This one line was not just a slogan; it was the people’s faith that it is possible if there is the Modi-Yogi combine. The faith in the government stems from Yogi ji’s delivery and Modi ji’s overall delivery. The foodgrain was not for votes; just as there were vaccines to save from the pandemic, the foodgrain were to prevent hunger.

What do you think will be the impact of Bharat Jodo Yatra? Senior BJP leaders have been talking about it and criticising it, aren’t you giving oxygen to the party?

If the Congress were to survive by us giving them oxygen (attention) tohbaat hi kya hai….and what is the harm.

Some people say that you deliberately focus on the Congress because then you don’t have to focus on the AAP, which is emerging as a potential challenger, especially in your home state of Himachal Pradesh.

The AAP has no presence in Himachal Pradesh. I got their state president and a host of other functionaries to join the BJP in one go. They cannot even gather a crowd of 200 people. The bubble has burst and the alcohol scam has unmasked their real face. And no matter how loudly Arvind Kejriwal, the kingpin of the liquor scam and key accused Manish Sisodia give clean chits to themselves, after the issue is investigated, just see who all will be in jail just as Satyendar Jain has been for the last four months.

Do you mean Manish Sisodia?

You know who the accused and the kingpin are. You may not have named Kejriwal, because you think that he does not sign any files. In the last eight years, there may not be any other CM who does not hold any portfolio and does not sign any files. Has the media ever written about it?

Do you see the AAP emerge as a challenger to the BJP in Gujarat, can it take the Congress’s position in the state?

The people of Gujarat are very sensible. No one can compete for the faith that the people have in the BJP for the last two decades, the development that has been offered in the same time, and the contribution of the two tall leaders (Modi and Amit Shah) who come from the state. The credibility of PM Modi has no comparison. They spent so much money in the last election, they were all over the hoardings, but where are they today? To find room in people’s hearts requires you to become Narendra Modi and burnish your credentials. There has never been a leader in this country whose instructions to clap or bang thaalis or light lamps (during Covid) were followed; and when he said give up subsidies, over 10 million did so. Who can match that credibility? And who in the land of (Mahatma) Gandhi will accept those who have done liquor scams?

The AAP says that the liquor scam is being unearthed in Delhi with an eye on the Gujarat elections?

Yeh Dilli ka ghotala hai, jiski goonj desh aur duniya mein hai. (It’s a Delhi scam that is resonating in India and abroad).

Sting operations were conducted (against AAP leaders) but no action has been taken so far. Why is there a delay?

Investigating agencies are conducting a probe and they will take action based on that. If Satyendar Jain was as clean as Kejriwal claimed, then he wouldn’t have been in jail. He used to give clean chit even in Punjab, but the law-and-order situation is deteriorating. In Jalandhar, an MLA hit a DSP, there are killings happening in a state where 34 people have lost their lives in gang wars in the last five months.

How seriously is the BJP taking Nitish Kumar, who was once your ally and has also thrown his hat in the ring for a bigger role at the national level?

What can one say about a person who has always coveted the chair (power) and left allies behind. You saw at the press conference, they (K Chandrasekhar Rao and Kumar) were playing musical chairs. What is the Nitish Kumar model, since the days of Samata Party to the JD(U), his role in deceiving allies is in the public domain. Will Rao see him as a leader, or will Kumar see Mamata Banerjee as a leader...or will Chandrababu Naidu come along? The Congress is going its separate way... who is the leader, this is not about Bihar but Bharat (India). You saw at the press conference, they (Rao and Kumar) were playing musical chairs.

The PM ,in his Independence Day speech, hit out against the dynasty, but people also question that there are dynasts in the BJP...

Someone needs to hear his old speeches where he has defined dynasty. After Jawaharlal Nehru, Indira Gandhi took over the Congress, after her Rajiv Gandhi, then Sonia Gandhi, then Rahul Gandhi... this is control over a party. After Mulayam Singh Yadav, Akhilesh has control over the SP...Those who contest elections come after securing votes. A person can be a dynast once, but after winning four times, they cannot be called dynasts because people have voted for them.

Do you think the PM was targeting the Congress with his statement or was it aimed at regional parties?

Look at the churn that is taking place in regional parties. People are in the process of leaving because they don’t see light at the end of the tunnel; they cannot see anything for themselves in the future. They cannot be head of the party and they cannot be president of the regional unit, forget about the national party. Where is the democracy within these regional parties ? From Farooq Abdullah to Omar Abdullah, from Mufti Sayeed to Mehbooba Mufti, from Mulayam Yadav and Akhilesh Yadav to MK Stalin... they are all in the same boat. And look at the BJP, has anyone from the same family become the party president ?

Recently you made a statement about TV channels behaving irresponsibly and the Supreme Court also made observations. Do you have any kind of plan in mind to tackle this problem?

We work on the self-regulation mode and I think they are mature enough now...I feel in a mature democracy, they know their responsibility. And I am sure, nobody wants such a situation (for outside regulation)... and I hope self-regulation will work.

What about an oversight body or defining hate speech or framing a law?

If anyone has an objection, they have three layers. They can file a complaint with the broadcaster, the second is with their association, and the third is with the interministerial committee. A majority of the complaints are addressed at the first and the second level.